Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative
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Posted - 2013.11.29 17:38:00 -
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Edit:
Previously, I thought this was a complaint about proto suit costs. Now ...
Um. Due respect for the 30 kills, but ... die less.
I run full advanced kit, as a scout, and normally turn a nice little profit. The exception is when my score card looks like the OP: no profit, nor do I deserve one if I'm going to throw quality kit down a hole.
If you're dying a lot, have a basic suit you can switch to that still gets the same job done most of the time. |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative
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Posted - 2013.11.30 03:38:00 -
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Aeon Amadi wrote:That would make sense if this were a pub-match but this was Faction Warfare where the stakes are (theoretically) higher. The outcome of the battle actually matters and one would expect that the Factions would pay handsomely for throwing ones' high-end gear at the problem. For the record, the other team was q-synced and almost all of them fielded Prototype gear.
Ah, one of those.
. . . .
Um. Frankly, that's a "fight another day" situation. I'm not saying you should quit the match, but it's seriously time to switch to a cheap fit after it becomes clear your squad isn't going to turn the match in your favor (assuming, of course, that you're running with a squad). It'll take them maybe a couple fewer shots to down you, you'll take a couple extra shots to down them, but ... look.
There's fighting the good fight, and then there's throwing good money after bad.
Straight up? You're a mercenary. Be practical. Use your money where not only the battle, but the money, will make a difference.
Quote:So, one might expect that the higher risk play-style would reward better but it doesn't. In fact, CCP removing ISK rewards from Faction Warfare in FW 2.0 is only furthering the negative impact that the low rewards system has on the game to accomodate for features that aren't in yet (P2P Market). What will inevitably wind up happening is that FW 2.0 is more than likely going to be a playstyle reserved only for the people who -can- afford it (AFKers and PC players) whereas the remainder are left to the broken pub matches.
Maybe. We'll see.
Quote:The "Die Less" argument is subjective and if you think that I did poorly, you should see some of the other guys. It's not always something that can be controlled unless you just Start > Leave Battle or camp the redline with a sniper rifle (incidentally, something I'd imagine all of you hate). Just as well, lowering oneself to using standard, militia or BPO gear is self-defeating because, while it is low risk, it's also low performance. The reason this is a problem is because Proto-stomping teams are already earning a reward for doing well: Precision Strikes. Forcing you to downgrade is just the icing on the cake if they're doing significantly better BECAUSE of that gear.
Of course it's subjective, but you're complaining about a battle in which you lost a lot of gear that you chose to field.
If you switch to the basic gear, your performance takes a bit of a hit. Fair enough. I, personally, love the feeling of downing a proto suit in a fit that cost a fraction of the value. You don't have to go toe-to-toe; they're not playing fair, so why should you? Try stealth, leave remote explosive traps. Work out ways to make them pay in blood, and more importantly, ISK, for the win.
You can't take the match, so give them pain-- all you can, at minimal risk to yourself. Remember that the value of what you lose adds to their reward-- if you feed them good stuff, you're doing exactly that: feeding them.
Also: it's kind of rare that proto-stompers are successful ONLY because of proto gear. Don't get me wrong, proto is nice, but it's an expensive habit if you don't have organization. Q-syncing is feared precisely because you end up facing a unified force, functionally a PC setup, and that's likely what they're using the match to practice (I've seen several corps do precisely this).
They're beatable, but it usually takes a kind of amazing squad. You're not honor-bound to give it your all when you're not going to be able to pull it off. The outcome matters, some, but the war is no single battle.
Quote:So which is it? Are we catering to veteran players who already have numerous advantages or are we going to at least make the game challenging (as opposed to punishing) for the rest of the game? I could go either way (I am, after all, getting a paycheck from PC clone sales) but I don't think we're going to do new player retention any favors if we let this slide.
This seems like a false choice. A balance must be struck. The game needs a lot of work and a lot of love; the good news is that it seems to be getting them, if not necessarily as fast as we'd like.
I paid my dues when I first joined, in blood. I was a couple thousand kills in before my K/Dr started evening out. CCP has claimed to have been working on public match matchmaking for the longest time, and I believe them.
I also believe that it's not an easy problem. It's popular to throw mud at CCP, but they're not stupid people.
Now, one of the interesting bits of FW is that it's an area where the matchmaking's hardly there at all. You get quite the assortment. Some more rewards for taking the plunge would be nice, but ... well, I guess we'll see how the LP store ends up working. In the meantime, I suppose I'm willing to just deal with the system as it exists-- that is, field what my budget allows, and start doing damage control when damage control is called for.
We're playing mercs, here. If the system's not making you fight with one eye on your wallet, it seems like it's not doing its job. |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative
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Posted - 2013.11.30 07:08:00 -
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John Demonsbane wrote:The whole point of the ISK rewards is to make you think twice about what you run just like you say. That fully applies to me and I follow the often-quoted EvE maxim that you shouldn't fly what you can't afford to lose. PC corp members do not have to follow that rule because they effectively have no limit to what they can spend, which kills the risk/reward aspect for the majority (who don't do PC) who can't get ahead because they always have to run gear they can't afford.
Cue vicious cycle where they consequently can't make a push into PC because they can't build up a big enough war chest to fund it.
They're not following the "don't fly what you can't afford to lose" rule? To the contrary. They're following it to the letter-- they can just afford to lose more, at least for a little while. It's like one of those pirate corps that can field Machariels.
('Course, even when they can afford it, losing those things still hurts.)
I get what you and Aeon are saying; I just don't agree. Perhaps it's because as a career scout I'm accustomed to being outclassed by any random red dot in a straight fight, but I just don't see inferior equipment as any sort of insurmountable obstacle. The differences are incremental, though they do add up.
Getting into PC from outside is going to require a lot of fighting smart. Really, I think what PC really needs is massive expansion: open up enough of it that even the largest group can't defend more than a small percentage of it. It's an experimental, and very limited, arena at the moment. I agree that the rewards can get outsized, but that seems more like reason to democratize it and maybe adjust those rewards than to start tinkering with other aspects of the game.
Being able to keep myself in advanced gear, plus a modest profit, through FW seems ... about right, really. But, as noted, we'll see how the LP stores work out. |